Random questions about posting original fiction

[michelel72]

I just spent two weeks sitting on my couch and typing. Once upon a time, I used to talk to people, or so I hear. So I figured, I've got some questions about writing and I'm curious what folks might think, for those who have the time and interest to consider them.

- Do folks see much point in posting original fiction to AO3? What I'm working on isn't going to be marketable, so I'm leaning that way, but I know the hit rate is much, much lower for original fiction than for fanfic. (AO3 is the forum I know; my only other outlet would be here, and no.) What if it's "AO3 or drawer" -- does that change any answers?

- How to tag original fiction? It seems like the only way non-fandom fic would ever be found would be through tags, but the wall-o'-tag approach certainly has its critics. Tags are used for filtering, but they also color the reader's decision whether to dive in even when not used for filtering. Major themes only ("friendship", "low self-esteem")? Minor content/setting as well ("good cops discussing bad cops", "Boston")? Depends on the size of the tags?

- Speaking of tagging, how deep should one go in terms of tagging potential triggers? I work long but not usually *this* long, and my running list of "hey maybe I should mention that" has hit a full page. "DIY mental health care" should probably be flagged, for example, but by tag or by pre-story note or by pre-chapter note or ...? If a 1985 character spends a short paragraph thinking about Cold War topics, should that be warned for? What about a few passing lines about a 2014 schoolchild's current-events fears? Post vague trigger warnings (such as by category) and a "contact me for details" disclaimer? Post them in a separate document? Put them in the end notes? Put them chapter-by-chapter, even if they're extensive and some apply to every chapter?

- Beta? When I was young and emphatic, I was adamant that a beta was always needed, but really, I just meant that stories should be reasonably clean in terms of SPaG and, ideally, language/dialogue flow. I have had stories improved immeasurably by betas. I've also been emotionally wrecked by the beta process, for mostly unrelated reasons, and hesitate to seek it again. I don't know that I could find a beta for a very long "original" work in the first place; the "economy" is completely different. (Fanfic is free and betas work free, both sides to get fanfic out there to share. Original fic has different rules. I'm not opposed to paying a real editor ... but I'm not going to do the work to make this story actually marketable, so would that be a waste of their time and my money?)

- Posting WIP? I tried it once. It didn't go well, for various complicated reasons; and in that case, I actually thought I had a completed first draft. On the one hand, feedback/enthusiasm might keep my enthusiasm up. On the other ... low hit rate, plus what if I (cough) discover something in the late story that needs to be supported with early-story edits?

- If you're posting to AO3, and if you want to be up-front that what you're posting is unpolished, how much (if any) process discussion would you put into chapter notes? If none, would you put that discussion anywhere, and if so, where? I kinda hate when people post fanfic with "I wrote this on my phone at 2am" disclaimers, honestly; am I kidding myself not to realize it's the same to say "here's an alpha writing project I'm posting mostly for myself but also to see what kind of reception it gets from the people who run across it"?

Comments

[sholio]

AO3 sounds entirely reasonable as a place to post it - I semi-frequently see AO3 origfic linked to and recommended. So people do read it there.

I also think it would be perfectly reasonable to put up a note like "This is an alpha writing project, concrit welcome" or something along those lines. Maybe phrased not so much as an apology for the fic as a note about what it is - I think that's where those "posted at 2 a.m. while high, sorry it's so terrible!" notes strike a wrong chord with readers. Talking a little about your writing process (maybe in endnotes rather than at the beginning) is also perfectly reasonable.

WIP - that's probably up to you, whatever you're comfortable with. I think it's probably better not to have high expectations for readership because it really can be all over the map for original fic, and people not responding doesn't mean it's not good, it just means they didn't see it. But posting as a WIP gives them more chances to see it, and if you're comfortable doing it, having a place to put chapters might give you a good incentive to work on it.

[sholio]

Oh, and for triggers, you could always just go with the old "choose not to warn" and not worry about it.

Even if you do use trigger tagging, I think minimal trigger tagging is probably better than having like a page o' trigger tags because you probably WILL miss something and I think it's paradoxically safer for people if you warn for the biggest stuff (e.g. explicit on-page rape) and then have a note that other sensitive material might be included and people can contact you if there's anything they're especially sensitive to, rather than indicating that the tags include all the potentially triggery content in the fic when there might be something big you've overlooked.

[michelel72]

Yeah, for triggers, I keep talking myself in circles -- "well, maybe just be vague, but I know about these specific ones, but ...". For fanfic, I usually select the "additional warnings in author's note" tag and then list them accordingly, but I don't usually have so *much*, and the more I get, the more I do worry that I'm missing something, so the more possibly-silly ones I start pulling in, etc.

I think you're right. The big flag at AO3 is "No Archive Warnings Apply", which in my case they don't, and the top-level "Choose not to warn" specifies those same warnings again, but I could look around for a good "warnings may apply, proceed with caution" kind of tag that should serve the same function without being misleading, along with a clearer note about contact.

[michelel72]

Yeah, I think my real problem is the tendency to equate "no feedback" with "clearly it sucks, everyone hates it, what were you thinking???" Which is rough when I've turtled myself so thoroughly in general that I don't really give (or have many ways to give) things much exposure. (And have somewhat purposely chosen a weird original/fanfic hybrid approach that doesn't really have a space anyway.) Bleh.

And you're right, the difference in "disclaimer" tone is key. A problem is finding the right balance (and stopping point) in the whole "I may or may not ever rewrite this, and I know it likely has some flaws, so I apologize for those and hope none of them are hurtful, but I just wanted to get this out there and see what people thought about it" etc. etc. But I would 100% rather see that kind of ramble than the equivalent of "this is crap and I don't really care, take it anyway!"

Posting a WIP before a full first draft (however thin) is done actually scares me too much, I think. There's a part of me whispering "doo eeet" because it's looking to check off a box and maybe get some feedback ... but I need to not count on that! Because if that's what I go in looking for, it'll bug me more when the natural lower hit rate of original fic crosses with readers LIKE ME who don't read WIPs because they can't keep track, ha. But that doesn't mean I can't try (again) to post smaller pieces on a regular schedule. Because dumping what's currently looking to turn out 100k-125k words of "original" fic all in one go doesn't seem too likely to get a rush of feedback either, strangely enough. :)

Thank you for all the thoughts!

[sophia_sol]

Yes, posting original fic to AO3 is perfectly fine in my book! I've read and enjoyed a number of origfics posted there. Although I can't advise on tagging for finding, because generally speaking I don't browse AO3 tags, just read stuff I see recced elsewhere, or stuff by authors I subscribe to

I'd be with Sholio on how to do trigger tagging.

I personally find that working with a beta can be valuable on improving how well I'm making the story do what I want it to do, but I pretty much only have one person betaing my stuff because I know I can trust that person. If betaing can be something you're sensitive to, it's absolutely not a requirement and I have read and enjoyed many stories which have had no beta and are still fully worth the read, so I wouldn't feel like you need to have a beta.

Posting WIP is something I know I personally could never do because I would never actually finish the story, but I know it's something that varies widely between people as to how well it works. Something that I know some people find helpful that's kind of halfway between a beta and posting a wip is finding an alpha-reader/cheerleader who you send your latest completed chapters to, who will cheer you on and tell you what they like about the latest update. I've been that alpha-reader for a friend before and found it to be fun and exciting, and I know the person I was cheerleading found it a valuable inspiration to keep working on the story.

My instinct is in general not to put any kind of disclaimer about the relative level of polish on a posted work, because I think it primes a reader to notice the things that don't work as well for them instead of allowing the reader to sink in and just enjoy. But if you feel that it's important for you to be up-front about it then I think Sholio's suggestions make sense.

[michelel72]

I've clearly made wrong assumptions about how AO3 tags are used!

Yeah, that's another fear I have of posting a true WIP. I'm close to finishing a draft, but maybe not letting myself post anything will get me past the post.

I'm not active in any non-fic writing communities (and very few fic ones these days), so I have no idea how one goes about finding an alpha reader. That sounds really nice! I never used to have (much) trouble with beta feedback, but the level of beta that does me real good is a lot of work, and it turns out I'm really touchy about miscommunication combined with life-caused time delays. (Which, haha, reaping what I've sown as a beta, oops.)

That's ... a good point about priming the reader. I'm torn! Because on the one hand, I can absolutely be thrown out of a story by something that is a certain kind of wrong, especially if I think the author doesn't know; but on the other, yeah, spotlighting the rickety construction does rather call attention to it.

Thank you for the thoughts!

[sophia_sol]

I think some people absolutely do use AO3 tags for searching/browsing -- if a reader is extremely into a particular trope or kink, and is fine with reading the most popular fandoms/ships out there, it's an amazing way to find what you're looking for. But the few times I've tried that I've eventually given up in frustration because of how many fandoms I didn't care about were clogging the tag, and I wasn't personally invested enough to wade through them all. But some people are!

I'm really not sure how to find an alpha reader either, so I'm afraid I'm not much help. The only alphaing/betaing I've been involved with (from either end) has just been something that developed naturally through friendship. I would totally volunteer to be your alpha reader because I know I like your writing, except that these days I do not have the time/energy to actually do that for someone, especially for a longer story :(

You could perhaps put the comment about the unpolished nature of the work in the endnotes of the story, rather than at the top? That way you're not priming the reader, but a reader who gets to the end with something niggling at them will have an explanation. That might not actually solve your use-case scenario of a reader being thrown out of the story mid-reading though.

[michelel72]

I think major themes are the way to go in tags, because they also serve as labeling. I'm wary of nearly untagged works in some of the same ways I'm wary of ludicrously overtagged works.

I totally understand (didn't mean to make you think I was fishing) -- my energy has been low for a very, very long time and I've had to choose my avenues of interaction carefully. I do thank you, though! And I posted at FB asking if anyone knew an alpha-reader-finding forum and a friend has offered directly, so I may have found someone after all!

I'm thinking maybe if I split the difference -- the format of the story is unexpected, so I do think I need to describe that up-front, and I could then say that additional process notes and disclaimers are available in the end notes or something. That way folks who want to go in forewarned, or who find themselves asking "is this meant to be this rough??", have somewhere they can check. This sounds like a plan. Thanks!

[sophia_sol]

Oh yeah, sometimes I come across works that have no tags beyond the fandom and the ship, and the summary is just an opaque quote from the story, and I'm like.....I don't know why you expect me to want to read this.

I'm so glad you've found a lead on an alpha-reader! And I didn't think you were fishing at all, I just was wishing I was able to make the offer :)

I think that sounds like a great plan on how to proceed with your explanations.

[schneefink]

- Yes, do post it to AO3! The way I find original fiction on AO3 is mostly through recs/people I know, but I've found some great stuff that I enjoyed a lot.

- I wouldn't tag for content warnings unless they're a major part of the story; I find a long list of tags unwieldy. For things that just appear, even if it's multiple times, I would add a note at the start and then a list in the notes at the end. (But only for common potential triggers, like e.g. animal or child death; and a note "contact me if you want more details.")

- I enjoy reading WIPs, and it can give you a lot more overall comments, but I think you need to consider if you find it discouraging if you post a chapter and don't get any replies, which might happen.

[michelel72]

I really thought tags were used for searching more than they apparently are! Though that may just be for original fiction, of course.

Yeah, a light hand on trigger warnings does seem to be the right way to go.

I think I do need to finish a full first draft before I post, even if I then decide to post chapter-by-chapter. Because, yeah, I do worry I'd get discouraged, but if the draft is done, I wouldn't have an excuse not to finish posting it all, even if it's just to have a readable version for myself.

Thank you for the feedback!