Character ruminations/fic rec: WtNV/Dresden Files: "Love Is All You Need [...]"

[michelel72]

Anyone want to talk characterization? I'm trying to figure out why a Welcome to Night Vale / Dresden Files crossover fic grabbed me so hard, because there are elements of the characterization of Carlos that I didn't think were really my thing, but they definitely work for me here. This is mostly just me trying to work something out for myself, so feel free to skip, but I'd love to chat about this stuff if anyone is interested.

The fic is Love Is All You Need to Destroy Your Enemies. I'm a fan of WtNV, but I don't know that I'd say I'm a hardcore fan or anything; I've never read "Dresden Files", and haven't really planned to, to the point that I've spoiled myself for numerous series developments. (I'm sure it's fine for the folks who like it; I don't mean to slam it or anything.) I try to avoid actual spoilers for the fic here, but there are some vague premise-and-characterization spoilers in my ramblings.

There are a number of tropes I know I like in this fic, and some I like sometimes, and some I didn't think I liked. What follows is pretty formless; I'm just tossing stuff out there.

- Carlos has magic. I like characters having magical talent, so that's easy.

- Carlos is very good at what he does. Competence is always my squee, particularly when it's shown more than told. And it's not as if he's perfect or always successful, but he works very hard to do what he does.

- Carlos is a warrior. I'm actually surprised that this works as well for me as it does. I like John Sheppard fine, but I don't really identify with him so much; same for Steve Rogers. Whump for either of them tends to leave me a bit cold. I always thought that the "soldier" thing was a bit of an off switch for me. I do like that Carlos is super-protective; but when he's distracted enough that he accidentally and instinctively disarms-and-neutralizes someone? (Without actually hurting them.) Mmmf. Maybe it's an intersection of "extreme competence" and, I don't know, "magic kinda maps to science in my head"??

- Carlos has a secret identity. This trope doesn't always click for me, but when Carlos puts on his "Clark Kent specs" to pass, I melt.

- Carlos has no particular problem with authority. I was charmed by this; I don't always need it, but it's a refreshing change to most fic protagonists. Similarly, he has a great relationship with his family, and while I really appreciate characters who don't necessarily have a good family history, it's nice to see here.

- Carlos is romantically incompetent. You'd think this would be something I don't like, since I adore competence, but I also have a weakness for certain types of social insecurity, and this fic sells me on each stage of Carlos's fumbling journey with Cecil.

- Carlos doesn't entirely realize that the scientists are as protective of him as he is of them. Characters who undervalue the degree to which others value them ... yeah, I like that.

There are many other aspects that I love about this fic: Exhaustion-based whump. Extensive but grounded hurt/comfort. Well-done humor. Mad science. Pining. Altered mental states due to exhaustion, injury, cosmic revelation, and even drinking-to-forget (but not due to deliberate, just-recreational drug/alcohol intoxication, which is a squick for me). A sexually non-explicit romance. A variety of romantic and sexual orientations, all treated with respect. The importance of different forms of love other than the pair-bond romantic. FRIENDSHIP and TEAM. Complex and evolving characterization. More to the story and characters than just a romance-leading-to-sex endgame.

I get why I'm into Tony Stark and Rodney McKay, but Carlos-the-Scientist-but-really-the-Wizard surprises me. I think it has to be that I'm reading magic as science, and putting really-skilled-fighter on top of that is what makes it for me.

I'm not sure if I'm hoping to find other characters/fic that grab me this hard. I've lost so much time to re-reading! (The length is a part of that; no matter what mood I'm looking to marinate in, I can usually find it somewhere in this very, very long story. And then it's so easy to keep going ....) I do sometimes fall into things hard as a way of coping with life stress; a year or two ago, it was the "Toasterverse" over in MCU Avengers that I latched onto, even though Tony/Steve is a "meh" for me. I can see areas of overlap and recognize some of the things that resonated for me in both cases. I can't concentrate on my own writing, though, which is annoying ... but if my brain needs to bathe in a certain feeling, and if sinking back into someone else's story accomplishes that, I can't really complain, either.

I dunno.

Comments

[schneefink]

I love that fic! I only listened to a few WtNV episodes, but the Dresden Files part of the crossover is extremely well done.
I wish I had time to reread it soon because there were some things I didn't get the first time (I thought I got most of the timetravel/doppleganger stuff and then another version showed up in the epilogue and I was hopelessly confused again.) The seamless crossover and combination of plot and romance were a big part of the appeal to me. I also really liked Carlos, and the scientists. Fuck yeah competence kink.

[michelel72]

I'm amazed at how many little bits of WtNV continuity are weaved in perfectly.

In the epilogue, there are three versions of Carlos. The one who drops off the cookies is presumably from some future point but is otherwise deliberately mysterious and unexplained. (I don't know if the author was leaving options open for a sequel or just nodding to the never-entirely-explicable nature of Night Vale itself. It's possible that another vortex incident arises in that future; or that Carlos will eventually get involved with a different method of time travel, such as whatever method was used by The Traveler; or that Night Vale expedites the interference directly somehow; or ....) I'm guessing that's the confusing one?

Julie is my personal hero. It's great to see a female character who is abrasive and arrogant and still entirely likeable!

[schneefink]

Julie <3
I also loved the scientists' progression from "wtf is going on" to full-on integration with all the crazy. Death ray!

No, it was past Carlos Prime who confused me, I didn't remember past Carlos traveling to the future and when that was. I probably just need to read the story again. And maybe a diagram ;)

[michelel72]

Oh, okay, I can explain that one! (Skip this if you want to get it from a re-read instead. :) )

Once Carlos claims/bonds-with?/charges the sand-copy sword, he steps into a vortex. (I didn't quite realize that he was specifically dissolving its magic as he entered it, but apparently he was.) The next thing he knows, he's waking up on the ground, in line for a condo, his arm freshly bandaged, his lab coat cleaned, wearing unfamiliar clothes ... and he has no memory of how he got from stepping into the vortex to that point. He writes off the little he does remember as having been a dream. The story quickly moves on from that point, but there is a hole; the epilogue then fills in that hole.

It's a bit of a narrative cheat, really; the emotional continuity of that part of the story doesn't quite work if you have that "spoiler" that Cecil will eventually accept Carlos's wizardry (rather than hoping he will but not yet knowing). Given the scope of the story, I don't really mind, though.

[schneefink]

Thanks for the explanation! I thought it was probably something like this, but I forgot.

Could you explain the desert otherworld that is mentioned in the epilogue? I figured it's something from WtNV canon and I'm curious :)

[michelel72]

Okay. The desert otherworld. :deep breath:

When Dana left the house in Desert Creek, she found herself in a desert with a mountain in the distance, upon which was a blinking red light [ep 31]. (That is presumably the same blinking red light/mountain combination that then showed up as a "mirage" -- Carlos's lines there are actually the same in canon and the fic, adorably [ep 32].) Dana later reports that time apparently moves differently in the desert otherworld, because she's been there for months or years; that she was catching glimpses of giant masked soldiers; and that she found a free-standing door but it was chained shut [ep. 41]. She finds she's starting to be able to phase between realities briefly; explores the mountain, which has creepy stuff; and senses the approach of something vast and terrifying [still ep. 41]. She gains more practice phase-visiting Night Vale (incorporeally) and somehow visits a years-future point [ep. 44], and she befriends/recruits the army of masked giants [ep. 45].

Doors start appearing all over town, opening onto a desert scene with people who urge secrecy and close the doors again; meanwhile, after scientist "Rachelle" (sp?) goes in for 45 minutes but experiences hours, Carlos decides to go into the house in Desert Creek, his team standing by outside to ensure he doesn't become trapped [ep. 46]. After arresting Cecil at the end of that episode, Strex then arrests the team of scientists, noting that Carlos was not among them [ep. 47]. Dana then uses a door to break people (including Cecil) out of the "company picnic" (prison/work camp) and introduces him to her assembled army of masked giants and angels, and an Erika (angel) then transports Cecil back to the radio station (via picture of a lighthouse -- go with it) so he can reclaim the radio station [ep. 48].

Then episode 49: Doors start appearing all over town, and the armies (and Tamika's insurrection) start fighting against Strex, while Dana finds Carlos and helps him phase-visit. He hadn't called because he thought he had to preserve his phone's battery and wouldn't have service, but she points out that they get really good service and the battery never drains. John Peters and Maureen "have seen the rumbling in the desert. We have heard the bright light entering Night Vale. Cecil, that light … it is the great glowing coils of the universe unwinding. It is the unraveling of all things. It is a Smiling God of terrible power." Carlos is working to invent something (and it is not an umbrella) to protect Night Vale from the light when the doors are opened. There's fighting, Strex is defeated and banished, but the doors won't close. Carlos discovers that "Night Vale is a place that is difficult to leave, and difficult to enter, and connecting a place as weird as that with a place as weird as this was causing a lot of … strain on linear time and space"; the doors can't be closed until all Night Vale natives had returned home and non-Night-Vale people have left ... and then as the last masked soldier goes from Night Vale to desert through a door, all the doors close and disappear, leaving Carlos in the desert, because he is not a Night Vale native. He doesn't remember how he got to Night Vale in the first place or even where it is, but promises he'll find a way back soon. He sounds confident at first but less so as he continues speaking.

And he's stuck there for the next year of the show. He starts out agreeing he'll look for a door or other way back "soon" but getting distracted by new discoveries (rumbling, odd behavior in the blinking light, swamp dirt with small bones, sudden self-healing of his phone).

By episode 58, Carlos has decided he doesn't feel trapped there and has asked Cecil to stop describing it that way; he's made friends among the giant soldiers and is "doing research", and he instead suggests that if he does find a door (which doesn't seem to be much of a priority for him), maybe Cecil could come to visit him instead. He phase-visits in episode 59, talking about the amazing rocks and changing constellations, and looks forward to finding a way for Cecil to visit.

In episode 65, while helping build a new settlement, Carlos meets a new group of people and eventually discovers they're the people who were trapped in the Dog Park in Poetry Week. "And I realized … this is the Dog Park! This whole desert, the mountain, the light up on the mountain, we’re in a vast, perhaps endless, and definitely endlessly forbidden Dog Park! Which means you can visit now! You just have to walk through that Dog Park gate, and then … you know, walk a few more hundred miles after that to wherever we’re at in this huge desert, and then you’ll be able to take that vacation here!"

Cecil takes a vacation and visits Carlos; after he returns, Carlos calls to reveal that his new buddy Kevin has built a radio station and maybe Cecil could, you know, think about maybe ... [ep. 68]. In episode 69, Cecil declares he's leaving to move to Carlos's new home. But in the next episode, all of Carlos's research is destroyed, so he up and returns to Night Vale instead (discovering, in the process of breaking this news to his good buddy Kevin, that the red stains on Kevin's clothing are not "barbecue sauce").

More than you ever wanted to know! :)

[sophia_sol]

Ooooh yes, this fic was a great deal of fun! I really enjoyed following it as WIP, though of course that meant that since it went on for so long I kind of lost track of some details, so I can't really talk characterization with you.... But the competence was great, and I loved the relationships between Carlos and the scientists, and all that. It made me happy every time I got an AO3 notification of an update. I'm sad it's done; I was kind of feeling for a while like it would never be done!

[michelel72]

That's actually why I can't do WIPs at all; I entirely lose track even in shorter ones with definitely planned elements. I worry that I'm missing great stuff because of that, though; I could easily have missed this one!

[sophia_sol]

You know, for some types of fics I have the same feel, and prefer to wait for it to be entirely done before reading. But somehow this one was different! I think it's because I decided I didn't actually care enough about the plot to try to follow what was going on, so it was just a bunch of shenanigans flying over my head that I didn't need to try to remember the antecendents for.

(Often what happens with me and WIPs is that I'm impatient and curious and I read what little has been posted, decide I really like it, track it on AO3, and then just delete all the update notifs until I get the notification that the final chapter has been uploaded and read the whole thing at once.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I really have to read the rest of that fic - read the first half or so of it when that's all there was, since it finished I put the rest on my kindle but haven't gotten to it yet. I am a fan of both Dresden Files and WTNV, so it worked for me on that side, and I think the version Carlos in particular worked for me because on the one hand he's a total badass fighter and wizard, and on the other he spends much of time completely out of depth and desperately struggling to save the day.

(also, apropos of nothing, but voluntary recreational intoxication being a squick for you, ahh thanks for laying it out like that, it made it jump into focus for me - I don't know if I'd say it's as strong as a squick for me, but considering how much I love non-consensual or accidental intoxication in fic, recreational drinking and drugs leave me totally cold and generally frustrated...)

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

I like the way you condense what really works about it. And everything about why he's so outmatched makes sense: yes, he should have backup, but there are valid reasons why he doesn't.

As for intoxication: I know, right? It's the weirdest thing. I grew up around a lot of recreational drug-and-alcohol use, so I get why it's a nope for me in fic as such; and yet I adore altered mental states that ... aren't deliberate, I guess? (The real mystery to me is why alcohol-to-cope-with-something doesn't trip me up the same way, but ... well, that's common enough that I guess it's just as well.)

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I've never quite figured out my deal with intoxication in fiction - some of it is a personal distaste for altered states in myself (I tend to react poorly to most drugs including alcohol - I don't really get high, just sick); but I have a few friends who use drugs recreationally and responsibly, and I don't have a problem with it in reality. But in fiction, yeah, I love it only under certain circumstances. Generally when it moves into the hurt/comfort realm. Alcohol-to-cope I think I like because it tends to fall along the emotional h/c spectrum - it's unhealthy behavior that generally is punishing to the character. I also tend to enjoy it when a character is drinking willingly but miscalculates their tolerance and ends up more intoxicated than intended. While as if they're drinking or toking up with friends and just have a good time...ehhhh, pass.